Talk:Training options
Hey!
Do you want to do something with this page or should I delete it?
btw, if you want to try things out, you could create a sandbox page: User:Pyridon2/Sandbox
Keep this please, this is already used in the Trainer page. The reason is that I plan to expand the individual skill pages with training possibilities (books) etc with more detailed information. Since the cost, xp gain and requirements are identical regardless of skill, but it's still relevant information, I plan to use this as transcluded page in those pages as well. If I find something to add to this chart, it will be updated everywhere it is used without the need to change every place it's been copied to.
I think this feature could be used elsewhere as well, you added all herbs on Woodland garden and looks like you just copy-pasted it, it could be transcluded as well, no need to update it separately. Same applies more or less to several things that are repeated over. So I made this as a kind of prototype of transclusion. And so far it seems to be working well, as a first attempt.
I also could not test this in the sandbox, as I need two pages: the transcluded page (this) and the page where it be transcluded to (Trainer).
Edit: while we are at it, I just made this table and the one on Trainer page quickly with the wizard, so they probably aren't very good looking or similar in appearance to the other tables.
Pyridon2 (talk) 21:11, September 24, 2020 (UTC)
If you want to expand it, then no need to delete it, but add at least add a category and a link, in order to keep the insights clean. And you can transclude other types of page as well e.g.
{{User:Wazarel/Sandbox}} gives:
This article or following section is likely to contain spoilers! Please proceed with caution.Unexpected Visit is the first quest and also the first main quest in Kingdom Come: Deliverance. Along with the next two quests, Run! and Homecoming, it functions as the tutorial: the player is confined to a limited area to learn the basics of the game.
Henry, the protagonist of our story, a young blacksmith apprentice in Silver Skalitz, slept in because he stayed out late the night before. His mother wakes him up because his father needs him to run some errands.
Synospis
We finally got some fine spring weather, but still I slept in late in the morning, because I was out celebrating til late in the evening. It was a bit hard getting out of bed this morning.
Objectives
- Go to your father
- Buy a bag of charcoal at the market (0/10)
- Collect the debt from Kunesh
- Try to get the axe, hammer and nails back another way.
- Find somethings at Kunesh's worth selling
- Try to get the axe, hammer and nails back another way.
- Pick up the cross-guard at the castle (0/1)
- Buy ale at the tavern
- Buy beer and don't let it get warm!
- Go with your friends to the Deutsch's house
- (Optional) Discuss the plan of attack with your friends
- (Optional) Lure Deutsch's wife away
- Go and get revenge on the Deutsch!
- Run from the catchpole
- (Optional) Meet the lads at Kunesh's
- Run from the catchpole
- Go and get revenge on the Deutsch!
- (Optional) Lure Deutsch's wife away
- (Optional) Discuss the plan of attack with your friends
- Go to the sword-fighing lesson
- Slashing (0/5)
- Stabbing (0/3)
- Chain strikes (0/3)
- Go to Mother - she'll patch you up
- Go back to Father at the forge
Walkthrough
In 1403, Henry is awoken by his mother in his home town of Skalitz, reminding him that his father, Martin, the local blacksmith, has to finish Sir Radzig's new sword that day. She questions Henry regarding a scratch on his hand, and despite Henry's various attempts to lie, she figures out (as mothers do) that he has been up to mischief - learning the art of sword-fighing from Vanyek. She scolds her son, and advises him to focus on learning his trade, stop hanging around with his no-good friends Matthew and Fritz, and maybe even settle down with his sweetheart, Bianca.
This first piece of dialogue begins to shape Henry's character, with the option to choose from four specific answers to the first two questions. These answers will give Henry a level-up in the respective stat - but no need to worry, every single trait will be available for you as the game progresses.
Below are the four traits you may first choose to boost early in the game.
Strength - this measures your ability to handle physical challenges. Wielding heavy weapons, stronger hits, inventory capacity - all these things rely on your strength and are more effective as you increase it, which is mostly done through combat.- Error creating thumbnail: convert: improper image header `/var/www/wiki/conf/kingdomcomedeliverance/en/images/1/14/Agility.png' @ error/png.c/ReadPNGImage/3964. convert: no images defined `/tmp/transform_85ca9dee57e9.png' @ error/convert.c/ConvertImageCommand/3354. Error code: 1Agility - this measures your speed - both in movement, evasion, and combat. The more agile a person, the better they are suited to wield more sophisticated weapons and bows, and archery will help increase this stat.
Vitality - this measures your endurance and stamina. More vitality will let you run longer, survive in prolonged combat, and keep your stamina up in the thick of things. Running and staying alive in battle will help increase your vitality.- Error creating thumbnail: convert: improper image header `/var/www/wiki/conf/kingdomcomedeliverance/en/images/4/48/KingdomCome_-_Speech.png' @ error/png.c/ReadPNGImage/3964. convert: no images defined `/tmp/transform_e883d8d8bb82.png' @ error/convert.c/ConvertImageCommand/3354. Error code: 1Speech - this measures your ability to talk your way out of situations - or into them. Better speech means getting what you want, whether it’s haggling for prices, getting information, or de-escalating dangerous scenarios, and can be improved by speaking more with others.
Henry is then prompted by his mother to have breakfast and to go see his father. There is food lying around the house, or you can eat in the pot on the fire. Once Henry has eaten his fill there are 2 objectives to complete to further the quest:
- Go to Father, he will give Henry a few errands to run in order to forge the sword.
- Go to see Vanyek to practice sword-fighting
You are now free to roam around Skalitz and complete your objectives any order you want, more often than not there is more than one way to advance in a quest: you can talk your way through, fight your way through, steal stealthily what you need or investigate for clues that will open yet another path.
First, go to see your Father. Even if it is the very first objective of the game, it is also timed: delay for more than 5 minutes and Father will be angry, offering Henry his very first skill check
| Father's stats |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 0 | 9 (will always fail) |
- Failure: Reputation loss with Father
No matter what happens Martin tasks Henry to get the Crossguard for new sword from Castle Skalicky, get charcoal from the market, collect the debt from Kunesh to pay for the charcoal, and finally to get cool and fresh ale from the tavern. Again, these objectives can be completed in any order, and there is some retroactive dialogue between them depending on what you did and in what order.
Get the Crossguard for new sword
Father ordered this fine crossguard to be engraved in Sasau and it has arrived back in Skalitz. This is the simplest objective of the quest, simply go to see Jaroslav and Janek in front of the castle gates. They won't let you in but Tobias Feyfar had them hold onto the crossguard to give it to you and they will do so happily, being impressed by the fine craftsmanship of the piece. After a bit of chatting, and potentially some additional dialogue about Kunesh and the Deutsch, it is time to keep going.
Sword-fighting practice
Head back down the path and through the gate to enter the village. Combat Master Vanyek is sitting on a table outside the inn. It’s his last day in town, so make the best of it by getting a primer in how combat works - your life may very well depend on it. Follow Vanyek to the arena near the sheepfold to get started.
Lock on to Vanyek and start strafing. Notice the five-pointed star, a stick figure with four limbs and a head, and the dotted chest in the middle. As you move your cursor around you can target each of these points. Keep this in mind as you change up your stance, and bear in mind where your opponent may have weaker armor. For example, Vanyek has some nice looking metal greaves - but his arms are lightly armored and his head is exposed.
Try out some simple slashes and practice changing angles of attack. After this, you can try your hand at stabbing - good for catching opponents off guard, but with less force. Finally, you get to try your hand at chaining attacks. Slash, and as soon as you hear the crack of your sword, follow up with another at a different angle, or a thrust to chain the attack. Eventually, you’ll be able to learn devastating combos that incorporate chaining attacks.
Collect the debt from Kunesh
This is the most complicated objective of the quest, as it can go many different ways.
Go and see Kunesh the village drunk, he usually stays near his house. He has no coin and is none too happy to see Henry ask him to repay his debts. First, talk to him, this will initiate a skill check, the first one for most players. You can try to use your tongue with speech, your looks through charisma, or your domineering appearance through strength to convince him.
| Kunesh's stats |
|
|
|
|
|
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 3 | 3 |
- Success: Reputation loss with Kunesh
- Failure: Fistfight + reputation loss with Kunesh
Unfortunately, even if you succeed in persuading Kunesh, he will not give you what you want, and if you failed it will anger him thus starting a fistfight. He is a pretty tough opponent at first, especially with Henry not being very skilled in combat yet.
- If you win the fistfight (getting his health down 50%) Kunesh yields to you and gives you his keys. You are free to take his axe outside his house, and his hammer and nails inside his trunk, in his house.
- If you lose the fistfight (getting Henry's health down 50%) Kunesh brushes you off and tells you to never come looking for trouble again. This starts the objective to get the axe, hammer and nails another way.
Get the axe, hammer and nails another way
Henry has got some options about this: he can ask his friends for help, ask his father to resolve the situation for him or try some more unconventional ways such as knocking Kunesh out to loot his keys and steal his stuff, or skipping this entirely and get charcoal directly.
If you go inside the house, near the trunk where Kunesh keeps his stuff safe, Henry will notice he needs a lockpick, and Fritz might have one. This unlocks the ability to get 4 lockpicks from Fritz, the only way to get some during Unxepected Visit.
- Ask Father for help
If Henry goes to cry in his father's lap he can ask for coin to buy the charcoal and the ale. In this case Henry' reputation with his father decreases but he gets 7 
from him. The objective ends here.
- Ask your friends for help
Henry can either ask his friends to "scratch [his] back" in which case they will go four-on-one beating Kunesh to the ground, but only after Henry helps them first (see here), or if the options was unlocked Henry can get lockpicks from Fritz and steal Kunesh's stuff himself.
Alternatively, Henry can get the lockpicks from Fritz and then still ask help to beat Kunesh up.
- Other ways
Henry can knock Kunesh out to loot his keys, and then steal his stuff directly, or you can just buy charcoal at the market with whatever money you have at hand, like by selling your pants. And finally you can always steal the charcoal as well.
If a stealthy route is chosen, completing this objective yields a bonus of 12 stealth experience for Henry.
(optional) Hang out with your friends
Go to Mother, she'll patch you up
Quest Log
start of the quest
I have to go to Father - I promised I'd help him with his work.
- talked to father
- In the end the bright sunlight woke me, with a little help from my parents. I want to help Father in the forge, as I'd promised him the day before. But first he wanted me to run some errands for him.
I started getting some training in sword-fighting from a mercenary who turned up in Skalitz recently. Father and Mother mustn't find out. For some reason they don't want me to learn to defend myself! I got a bit of a cut in yesterday's lesson, though. We're supposed to meet by the alehouse again today.
- sword-fighting practice done
- I met again with that mercenary who's been teaching me to swordfight. This time I didn't get cut like before. But I'm afraid when Father and Mother see my bruises, they might suspect I'm learning swordplay behind their backs.
talk to father
I have to go to the market and buy charcoal for Father for the forge, so we can finish the sword for Sir Radzig.
Great! I've got to get the money for the other things from Kunesh, who owns Father money. He's too soft on that drunk! I suppose he feels sorry for Kunesh since his wife ran off, but I'm damned if I know how I'm supposed to get money out of him.
Finally an errand I can actually enjoy! The cross-guard for the sword I'm helping Father make has arrived from Sasau and I've got to go to the castle to pick it up.
It goes without saying I also have to bring ale for Father. I've been doing that since I was big enough to carry the pitcher. Fresh and cool, as always, to quench the heat of the forge. But I'll have to get that last, so it doesn't get warm.
Notes
- During this quest, time is stuck at 10a.m.
- There are 2 autosaves during this quest: one after the first dialogue with Father, and one after the gang throws dung at Deutsch's house.
- It is impossible to leave Skalitz during this quest, and it is impossible to go back to this version of Skalitz after (it will be sacked).
- The stat boosts Henry can choose from his mother at the start of the quest always results in a level-up in the stat. So if one chooses to get 2 boosts to one stat, they will get 130 (50+80) exp compared to 100 (50+50) exp if two different stats are selected.
- There are a lot of NPCs in Skalitz flagged as essential during this quest: Father; Mother; Tobias; Vanyek; Bianca; Hans; Fritz and Matthew.
Trivia
- There is a lot of foreshadowing in the dialogues of this quest:
- Mother says that Martin's knees are aching, which only happens before a storm, but the sky is clear today. The incoming storm being Sigismund's cuman army.
- Mother says that if Henry's friends (Matthew and Fritz) keep their petty misdemeanour up they will end up swinging, which can happen in Gallows Brothers with the achievement Judas.
- Havel says "I only hope Sigismund doesn't get an appetite for our silver too." which happens to be true.
- This quest marks the start of a series of broken promises for Henry, a recurring theme in the three quests of the introduction (Unexpected Visit, Run! and Homecoming):
- Henry promised to help his father at the forge but slept in.
- Henry promised to see his girl, Bianca, at the dance in the evening.
- Henry promised his parents to drop sword-fighting to learn his blacksmith trade instead, but he learns it anyway.
Bugs
- The last objective of the quest, give her nails to Theresa, will accept either the nails for Theresa or Kunesh's nails, or both, from your inventory. The player can choose to keep the nails for Theresa if they give Kunesh's or vice-versa.
- If you ask your friends to help you beat Kunesh up after getting lockpicks from Fritz, Kunesh's axe will be flagged as stolen, and it is troublesome to take since Kunesh sits next to it.
- When the catchpole runs after Henry after the brawl with Hans and Zbyshek, if the player talks to him first they will be able to talk to the catchpole as many times as they want, instead of just once.
- If you succeed the speech skill check with Kunesh, Henry loses and gains reputation with Kunesh at the same time.
Video
==Gallery== (see here).
It is a good idea to transclude repeated data, I didn't know about it (I previously used <tabview> but it is no longer supported.
If I find a page where I can transclude, I'll do it, but Herbs unfortunalety is way bigger than the copy-pasted data shown on Woodland garden, so its a no-go there.
Btw, I updated the item infobox, what do you think? I thought a standard layout for all the items templates could be good.
Wazarel (talk) 21:24, September 24, 2020 (UTC)
I'll add all the categories you want me to add, but I don't know which ones would be appropriate here. What link are talking about? Probably link here, but from where? Insights aren't familiar to me.
And regarding transclusions, I knew they existed (from other wikis), but I had to find out and experiment how to make it work here, so like I said, this is only the first attempt. I'm convinced that it's possible to transclude parts of a page so it could be possible to transclude just the herb table from the page (for example), but I don't know how to do that yet. I wanted to start with something simple, interfering as little as possible with something that's already developed quite far (like herbs page).
I'll check the item infobox when I can, but standard layout sounds good.
Pyridon2 (talk) 07:31, September 25, 2020 (UTC)
I took a quick look at Insights. So it lists pages without links from them (among other considerations), I assume? In that case I think that this specific page is kind of exception, because there's nothing in this table to link anywhere - it's just constant values. Only thing worth linking would be the groschen template, but I didn't know whether to put it in the Cost header or individual pages.
Still, this issue could be relevant for other pages used only for transclusion. Pages like this which are meant ONLY to be used as a part of other page(s) wouldn't necessarily have links and still they shouldn't pop up in insights.
Pyridon2 (talk) 07:59, September 25, 2020 (UTC)
I don't know how to transclude only a part of a page, maybe I'll ask around.
It is all explained here. We have to use <noinclude>//<onlyinclude>//<includeonly> brackets on the source page, see what I did in Herbs and Woodland garden.
An issue with transcluding a page is that is also transcludes the categories, e.g. I transcluded Archery contest into Archery range, but it added Category:Mini-games to archey range from archery contest. So I had to put the category mini-games into <noinclude> brackets.
Also if you don't want any link to this page, and it is only meant to be used as a transcluding page, you can turn it into a template, this way there will be no need for categories or links. I ain't no pro but I can still help you with that.
P.S. I thought you could add a "trainer" or "trainers" category to regroup anything trainers-related.
Wazarel (talk) 09:45, September 25, 2020 (UTC)
Yes, what you did with the Woodland Gardens is exactly what I am talking about when I'm thinking of transclusion. Maybe I could put the basic table on Trainers page, and transclude it from there instead of this page, and then this page could just be removed. That would solve the "no links" problem as well.
"Trainers" as a category could be useful. In the end it will just tie to training skills anyway, but maybe that doesn't matter.
Another thing what I've thought is Books - Skill, because they seem to follow the same pattern as trainers: there are four levels, minimum requirements, standard price, and standard XP gain. Most of that information is now stored in the infobox (Example: Agile as a Weasel (book)) but the XP gain isn't there, and I don't think that nn / nn / nn / nn structure in the infobox is very intuitive. It's not too confusing either, but I think that a table like this would be a better way to present the same information. Even if I generally like things being put in in the infobox, one infobox doesn't work really well with the four different levels of books.
--Pyridon2 (talk) 13:04, September 25, 2020 (UTC)